Curse

Ranger Li · Jul 20, 2005, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Well ive been trying to make a suitable R\W build but have been having trouble...

If anyone could post one id be very greatful but in the meantime ive been toying around with some stuff

10 Swords
10 Tactics
14 Marks (I like the high range and wont change it

)

Gash
Sever Artery
Final Thrust
Defensive Stance
Bonetti's Defence
Disrupting Shot
Savage Shot
Healing Signet

It hasnt worked out that well in PvE and havent gotten a chance to REALLY test it in PvP, most skills are available to me and any help would be appreciated

Excer · Jul 20, 2005, 04:15 PM // 16:15

i think the problem is that you're using both a sword and a bow. it really isnt a good idea, since your attributes and skills will be spread out too much. i'd focus on either using a bow, or a sword, or just copting one of those cookie-cutter apply poison axe builds

rii · Jul 20, 2005, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Since expertise lets you spam energy attacks, take all those energy attacks as a warrior youve been waiting to spam and spam them. Same as with a ranger really. Thrill of Victory, Pure Strike, etc, and adrenaline moves restricted mainly to things like final thrust, etc.

My suggestion, get 14 expertise, and some energy attacks, energy dodges, energy anythings, and hf. You might also want a res signet in there for pvp.

sphinx · Jul 20, 2005, 04:26 PM // 16:26

expertise only affects the cost of ranger skills, so unless he goes all ranger then theres not really a reason to go high in that.

Excer · Jul 20, 2005, 04:33 PM // 16:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphinx

expertise only affects the cost of ranger skills, so unless he goes all ranger then theres not really a reason to go high in that.

thats not true. expertise affects all attack skills, which basically only excludes spells, no matter what proffesion its from

Epinephrine · Jul 20, 2005, 04:42 PM // 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphinx

expertise only affects the cost of ranger skills, so unless he goes all ranger then theres not really a reason to go high in that.

Expertise: For each rank of Expertise the energy cost of your skills of types "skill", "attack skill", "glyph", "preparations", "nature ritual", "shout", "stance" and "trap" decreases by 4%.

That's for any skill, whether it's a necromancer's "Vile Touch", a Monk's "Smite" or a warrior's "Cyclone Axe".

R/W is typically used to minimise the energy costs of both ranger and warrior skills, using expertise. You could for example blend Expertise with Wilderness Survival, a melee weapon and a bit of tactics. Using runes for the Expertise and Wilderness Survival allows you to put a bit more into your weapon, and tactics can be high enough for a good shield. Most also have a 3 in Beast mastery, which they use a minor rune for to get Tiger's Fury up to 7 seconds duration, as TF has no weapon damage reduction or increased damage suffered.

ICURADik · Jul 20, 2005, 04:43 PM // 16:43

R/W With Tiger's Fury, For Great Justice and Irresistible Blow spammage is fairly powerful.

Edit:If you going to have 14 expertise, then go ahead and grab oath shot and lightning Reflexes. for 75% of the battle you should have 33% attack speed, 75% evasion, and double adrenaline.

Mithie · Jul 20, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

You need an offensive stance in there somewhere, like tiger's fury or flurry, maybe replace defensive stance with it. I'd also take out healing signet and replace it with a speed boosting skill (even though there are none from the three trees you chose. Sprint will work, since the duration is still good with 0 pts in strength) since it looks like you'll be shifting a lot between melee and long range.

Epinephrine · Jul 20, 2005, 05:36 PM // 17:36

You aren't using the MAIN ability of rangers: Expertise. Expertise lowers the cost of the overpriced ranger skills to a very reasonable level.

No matter what, if you plan to use skills that cost energy regularly you need Expertise.

The fact is that investing a lot of points in both a close range and distance weapon is not going to work well - and Ranger attacks are notoriously expensive without expertise. After all, your savage shot alone will empty your energy pool in 3 shots. I guess it's alright that you did it that way, you have no energy skills from warrior to eat up your energy supply, but the fact is that you have two useless skills when your sword is out, and nothing to spend your energy on while your sword is out. You have no preparations to inflict conditions or bump up damage, you have no damage increasing stance, your only defensive maneuver is a short duration elite used to replenish energy, while you don't really use much energy, and it ends if you use a skill.

It looks to me like the worst of both worlds - I can provide helpful advice, but if you won't drop your bow stat and insist on trying to be a bow and sword user you will be mediocre in either role, at best.

d4nowar · Jul 20, 2005, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Use frenzy until you get flurry, then switch to flurry. IMO, the purpose of a warrior secondary for a ranger is the attack speed boosts and basically the entire tactics line.

Epinephrine · Jul 20, 2005, 05:43 PM // 17:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4nowar

Use frenzy until you get flurry, then switch to flurry. IMO, the purpose of a warrior secondary for a ranger is the attack speed boosts and basically the entire tactics line.

Tiger's Fury is a better attack speed boost than either of the others really.

I agree that Tactics is a nice line, you could make a case for a Ranger type using a bow and the tactics line, but I always liked the expertise, wilderness survival and melee weapon approach.

sphinx · Jul 20, 2005, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Real sorry for posting wrong info :/ Thought i read it only affected rangers. Quite glad to learn that it affects other profs as well.

d4nowar · Jul 20, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Tiger's Fury is a better attack speed boost than either of the others really.

I agree that Tactics is a nice line, you could make a case for a Ranger type using a bow and the tactics line, but I always liked the expertise, wilderness survival and melee weapon approach.

Isn't Tiger's Fury a BM skill though?

If so, what other BM skills would you use?

DaGreatAzn · Jul 20, 2005, 06:05 PM // 18:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by ICURADik

R/W With Tiger's Fury, For Great Justice and Irresistible Blow spammage is fairly powerful.

Edit:If you going to have 14 expertise, then go ahead and grab oath shot and lightning Reflexes. for 75% of the battle you should have 33% attack speed, 75% evasion, and double adrenaline.

tiger's fury would be a bad choice because it only lasts for 5 sec if you dont wilderness survival. i think ranger li's build is a lost cause if he/she chooses to use a bow and sword

Epinephrine · Jul 20, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by d4nowar

Isn't Tiger's Fury a BM skill though?

If so, what other BM skills would you use?

None. You get 7 seconds duration out of it at 4 BM, so 3+1 does it easily;

you end up with increased attacks 70% of the time, at full damage, for an equivalent of roughly 135% damage output,
compared to increased attack speed but reduced damage (Flurry) resulting in about 120% damage output (1.5*.8)
or Increased attack speed (150% damage output) but suffering double damage (Frenzy)

Given the choices, I find that the 6 attribute points to get level 3 BM are easy to spare, and a minor beast mastery rune sells for about diddley squat, so it's easily acquired. Granted, if you are relying on the frequency of hit by a more significant margin it might be worth the extra speed that flurry gives (for example, kindle arrows+conjure fire may be better off with flurry). Since you multiply the bonus damage by 1.5 for flurry and only 1.35 for TF; let X equal the percentage of your damage per shot coming from the arrow; you get the equivalence point from an equation that states that X*1.35+(1-X)1.35 = X*1.2+(1-X)*1.5, or you break even when the bonus damage per shot is equal to the bow/weapon damage per shot - now, you need to take criticals into account, as well as damage bonuses from higher marksmanship/weaponskill, but essentially, for a customised bow at 15-28 damage with a 15% bonus above 50% and a marksmanship of 12 for example you break even at about 30 bonus damage per shot - so if you are adding less than 30 damage per shot from conjure/prep/ritual you are better off with a 7 second Tiger's Fury; if you add more than 30 damage per shot you are better off with Flurry. Flurry and Frenzy have the additional advantage of hitting the cost reduction breakpoints at slightly low expertise values, hitting 3 cost at 8 Expertise rather than TF which hits 6 at 9 Expertise, and hitting 2 cost at 13 Expertise while TF hits 4 cost at 14 Expertise.

It does depend to some extent on the skills involved, but the very small investment seems worth it to me, possibly because I don't stack as much on my bow/sword. It is a valid point though, that with effects triggered on hitting it may be worth using Flurry over TF if there is enough damage/effect added. The above is based on the multiplier for Flurry being 80%, or .8; I don't know what the actual damage reduction is, but this number was listed in one of the posts about Flurry. Obviously, if the damage reduction of flurry is a little bigger you'll need a larger percentage of the damage coming from the bonus (This is assuming that the damage from the buff is a separate source, like kindle or conjure is; I don't know if something like Favourable winds adds to the physical weapon damae in which case it may count on the other side.) As well, with more investment in BM you could bias it towards TF, with less in BM you'd bias it toward Flurry.